View Poll Results: Očekujem da će situacija u Ukrajini voditi:

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  • 1. pobjedi Janukoviča i gušenju/osipanju protesta

    25 15.92%
  • 2. pobjedi opozicije i prelaskom Partije regiona u opoziciju

    21 13.38%
  • 3. federalizaciji zemlje i dugogodišnjoj nestabilnosti

    25 15.92%
  • 4. novim građanskim sukobima, a možda i građanskom ratu

    46 29.30%
  • sporazumnom raspadu Ukrajine i formiranju dvije ili više novih država

    24 15.29%
  • nekom drugačijem epilogu-objasniću/ne mogu da procijenim

    16 10.19%
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Thread: Ukrajina - sraz dva svijeta

  1. #5151
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    Rastapopulos odlicno znate o kakvoj se antiruskoj politici radi, a znate i kako bi je zapad demonstrirao da mu moze biti. Libija bi bila sitna sto bi se od Rusije radilo, to kako pustaju Evropa i Amerika smo gledali evo dvades i kusur godina. Nadajmo se da je zavrsno bilo sa Sirijom, a Ukrajina je crvena linija koju je zapad rijesio da predje, dakle svjesni rizika koji to nosi sa sobom. Ukrajinska vlada nije napravila glupost sto nije uvela vanredno stanje, vec njima i u ugovore o kreditima stoje klauzule koje se ticu da garancije daje cjelokupna Ukrajina, sa sve jugoustocnim oblastima, sto dovoljno govori o interesima, bilo po pitanju resursa, a o vojnim da ne govorimo. Jos da samo napomenem da vam je ta prica kako Svijet zaustavlja ili ne Putina vise nego bezocna, svakome ko imalo prati sto se po Svijetu desava zadnjih par decenija jasno je da Putin zaustavlja porobljavanje Rusije. Ili cete sad da nastavite sa onom ogavnom pricom kako i u Donbasu treba rasporediti krstarece rakete koje brane Evropu od Irana ili od Sirije ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastapopoulos View Post
    Samo jos kad bi objasnio o kakvoj se tacno antiruskoj politici radi kad je evo pustaju i amerika i evropa da radi po ukrajini sto joj volja a sankcije koje su im uveli su takve da se u rusiji smiju. Sve ovo sto vidis je samo zamajavanje i spasavanje obraza i jedino pitanje u citavoj prici je dokle je Putin spreman da ide i kolike troskove da podnese. Ukrajinska vlada je napravila glupost sto nije odma uvela vanredno stanje i rijesila problem jer im je bolje i da rusi vojno osvoje te provincije nego federalizacija a sve se bojim da ce na kraju ta federalizacija i bit jer je to jedini scenario dje rusija ne gubi. Sve u svemu svijet nema volje da zaustavlja putina a kad se nema volje onda se mnogo prica, daju ostre izjave i prijetnje ali veoma malo radi.
    Pa o politici nasilnog instaliranja antiruskog režima u Kijevu.

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    Kojeg antiruskog rezima u Kijevu onog sto je sa Rusijom potpisao sve zive sporazume i sto je Putin trazio i sto nije dok su bili na vlasti?
    I'm the boss, and you're NOTHING! You get that?

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    Svake godine američki istoričar Vilijam Blum objavljuje svoj „osvježeni izvještaj o spoljnoj politici SAD” koji pokazuje da su SAD od 1945. godine pokušale da svrgnu više od 50 vlada, od kojih su mnoge bile demokratski izabrane; da su se grubo miješale u izbore u 30 zemalja; da su bombardovale civilno stanovništvo u 30 zemalja; da su pri tom koristile hemijsko i biološko oružje i da su pokušavale da ubiju lidere drugih zemalja.

    Pa onda, po mišljenju Džona Pildžera, Ukrajina je – kao i Irak i Avganistan – postala zabavni park CIA koji vodi lično direktor CIA Džon Brenan sa desetinama „specijalnih jedinica” CIA i FBI, jačajući „bezbjednosnu strukturu” koja nadgleda brutalne napade na one koji se suprotstavljaju februarskom puču.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ia-john-pilger

    Last edited by Domaćin; 16-05-14 at 16:49.
    Bolji od sebe.

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    Procitah jutrosnji International New York Times i sad "prevrnuh" sve da nadjem tekst na netu...

    Izvolite..

    CONTRIBUTING OP-ED WRITER

    Great Russia’s Grand Choice


    By MAXIM TRUDOLYUBOV


    May 15, 2014


    MOSCOW — For most of the post-Soviet years, Russia has been torn by a question that haunts its people and their rulers: Do Russians want their country to be an imperialist power feared by other nations or a land whose primary concern is its citizens’ well-being?President Vladimir V. Putin has resolved the issue, or so it seems. He has decided to tip the balance in favor of ambitious expansionist politics rather than domestic development. Prosperity for the people is all very well up to a point, but it has a downside: It produces independent-minded individuals who may try to vote their ruler out of office.Pursuing grand strategies on the international stage is safer — at least for Russia’s powers that be. Defending the Russian-speaking populations of the former Soviet Union creates so much tension both at home and abroad that the domestic economic agenda is dwarfed in comparison. Who cares about economic deterioration, poor public services or endemic corruption when the nation is gripped by imperialist fervor?But in pushing Russian expansionism is Mr. Putin really making a safer bet? When asked by pollsters about what Russia’s priorities should be, respondents are generally divided. In a recent survey by the Levada Center, a Russian nongovernmental research organization, 48 percent favored prioritizing the country’s international standing, while 47 percent said they favored a government that concentrated on creating conditions for individual prosperity.Almost a decade ago, there were indications that this dilemma was close to being resolved in favor of economic progress and peaceful nation-building. According to a poll conducted in 2005 by Levada, more than 60 percent of respondents said they would prefer to live in a nation with higher living standards, while 36 percent counted national “greatness” as a priority. But that resolve proved temporary.Back in 2007, Michael Porter, a Harvard business professor, advised the Kremlin on economic matters. He and his team then wrote in an analysis of Russian competitiveness that differences of opinion within the government “go beyond the usual policy disagreements that are present in many governments” and “strike to the heart of the goals of the nation itself.”They continued: “Is the goal politics or prosperity for citizens? There is no clear mechanism to resolve these incompatible aspirations. Instead, conflicting signals threaten to cancel each other out and, even worse, create a high level of uncertainty about future policies.”One has to remember that, in a country where the mass media is under strict government control, public opinion may be easily skewed. For several years, especially since street protests erupted in late 2011 and the Kremlin was shocked to discover serious public discontent, the state propaganda machine has been busy inventing or exaggerating threats the Russians are supposedly facing. Mr. Putin embarked on a radical information offensive to divide and frighten his countrymen.The current streak of anti-Ukrainian and anti-Western propaganda — fraught with menacing imagery of Ukrainian fascists and their American puppeteers — is only a recent chapter in a larger PR-strategy. Past Kremlin agitprop has included dire warnings of vague conspiracies to overthrow the government, attacks on artists supposedly seeking to humiliate the Russian church, and warnings that homosexuals and a “pedophile lobby” are using the Internet to undermine the traditional family and Russian society.These threats, fomented by the state-controlled media, are an excuse to increase the security budget, push anti-gay legislation and laws against “blasphemy,” and establish control over the Internet.The Kremlin’s current propaganda campaign, focused on the “Ukrainian threat,” has been paraded as a justification for military activity along that country’s borders, for possible covert use of force inside Ukraine and for an all-out information war against the West.Given the intensity of the media blitz, it’s a sign of relative sanity that only half of Russians are choosing sovereign and military greatness over well-being.“Despite all the propaganda, half of the country is resisting the imperialist temptation,” says Vladimir Magun, a sociologist with the Russian Academy of Sciences.Mr. Putin’s annexation of Crimea appears to be overwhelmingly popular, but that is because the true cost is being hidden. The Russian public has readily bought the propaganda message that it received Crimea as a free gift, says Mr. Magun, but it’s like shopping in a store with no price tags. A disappointment awaits us at the exit: Stores that don’t display price tags are usually very expensive.As a result of Mr. Putin’s adventure, Russians can expect higher borrowing costs and a decrease in the value of the ruble, and along with that, a decrease in the value of their savings. Mr. Putin is risking a severe economic downturn and even a regional war.The president must understand that he won’t be able to avoid economic realities: We can’t race ahead without fundamental improvements in Russia’s global competitiveness. The economy is in recession, and though the effects have not yet trickled down to most Russians, tougher economic times lie ahead. That will bring a day of reckoning.Mr. Putin will argue that the West is punishing Russia for its international ambitions and that we, the Russian people, will have to persevere.This is the type of social contract the Soviet government used to impose on its citizens: The enemy is at the gate, and we all have to hunker down. Mr. Putin is bringing this siege mentality back because he knows very well how to work it to his advantage.The choice between “greatness” on the world stage and domestic prosperity is a false one. Russia can be a formidable world power while flourishing at home.Maxim Trudolyubov is the opinion page editor of the business newspaper Vedomosti.
    Nevjerovatan je slovenski narod.. Ni nasima nije odgovarao cika Avram, ni plate radnicima u fabrikama od 1500 dm prije 25 god... Birali su "moc i silu" bez gatja...


    Hvala Lepo

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    Procitah vijest od prije mjesec kako je ruski Su-24 potpuno onesposobio americki razarac Donald Kuk.
    http://www.vestinet.rs/aktuelno/cime...anu-iz-vazduha
    originalna vijest sa maticnog mjesta
    http://de.ria.ru/opinion/20140421/268324381.html

    Naravno oni koji su za Rusiju ovu vijest ce docekati sa odusevljenjem i ubjedjenjem da je to tako.
    Medjutim ako iole razmislite postavicete sebi logicna pitanja koja ce odmah dovesti u sumnju citavu vijest.
    Recimo
    odakle su Rusi uopste znali da su monitori na brodu pogaseni i da ce 27 clanova posade da da otkaz?
    Last edited by autodijagnostika; 17-05-14 at 10:32.

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    Putin jutros naredio povlacenje vojske sa granice i ne sumnjam da ce EU ministri u prvom redu njemacki jedva docekati da ga ishvale i odma reci e sad ne trebaju sankcije evo Putin popushta. A Rusija vec uvezla dovoljno separatista u Ukrajinu da od dva regiona napravi novo Pridnjestrovlje i vojska im vise ama bash nista ne treba jer je svoj posao da sprijeci Ukrajince da uniste separatiste dok su slabi i malobrojni vec obavila. Za to vrijeme Evropa i SAD su umjesto da podrze ukrajinsku vladu tandarale o deeskalaciji a sad kad su separatisti organizovani vrsiti ofanzive na njih je mnogo teze i koshta mnogo vise a ukrajinska kasa prazna ka' glava Nebojse Medojevica. Kako ce Ukrajina sprovesti izbore bez 2 najveca regiona to ne zna niko ali svi pricaju da treba i svi ce se sad sloziti da Rusija tu nije nista kriva jer Putin deeskalira Sve u svemu to samo pokazuje kako u Evropi a ni u SAD trenutno djao'ljeg drzavnika i lidera nema vec je to gomila birokrata i sitnih racundzija koje Putin i Lavrov vodaju ka' mlade majmune.
    Last edited by Rastapopoulos; 19-05-14 at 10:06.
    I'm the boss, and you're NOTHING! You get that?

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    Sto se toga tice Evropljanima nisu u interesu sankcije Rusiji, tako da su se SAD malo preracunale oko podrske Ukrajini. Putin igra saha sa njima. I ja mslm da ovaj put nece dopustit da ga Njemacka ucjenjuje oko ogranicavanja kolicine isporuke gasa Kini.
    Forever young, i want to be forever young

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    SAD osim 3-4 republikanska senatora koji koriste temu da sebi dignu rejting ta Ukrajina ne zanima ama bas ni malo i zato su prakticno i pustili Evropljane da sve rjesavaju a koliko su oni uspjesni u rjesavanju kriza i konflikata to znamo iz naseg primjera
    I'm the boss, and you're NOTHING! You get that?

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    Bolji od sebe.

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    Ne interesuje SAD da se opkole Rusiju na zapadnu granicu NATO-m? Nesto ne vjerujem. A i stampa im je puna propagande o Ukrajini i Putinu. I Obama se bgm dobro zalijeta. A vidjeli smo Amerikance na dosta primjera koliko su (ne)uspjesni u resavanju kriza.
    Forever young, i want to be forever young

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    Quote Originally Posted by technus View Post
    Ne interesuje SAD da se opkole Rusiju na zapadnu granicu NATO-m? Nesto ne vjerujem. A i stampa im je puna propagande o Ukrajini i Putinu. I Obama se bgm dobro zalijeta. A vidjeli smo Amerikance na dosta primjera koliko su (ne)uspjesni u resavanju kriza.
    Nije Rusija dovoljno jaka prijetnja da bi se time bavili i razmisljali na takav nacin a da su to htjeli zavrsili bi to 90ih kad Rusija nije imala ni 5% od onoga sto ima sad, a to je i trebalo da urade jer bi tako neminovno i Rusiju okrenuli ka Zapadu. Medjutim u politici su glasovi i ankete mnogo vaznije od dugorocnog razmisljanja a Amerikancima je bilo dosta duse oko Rusije pa su prosto digli ruke i prepustili EU da se time bavi a kako su oni efikasni to znamo. A kad su dosli narandzasti na vlast to je isto bila prica da to Amerika opkoljava Rusiju ma su Amerika a i Evropa tako fino pomogli narandzaste da su ovi morali sve nove i nove zajmove od Rusije uzimati jer bi u suprotnom bankrotirali. Ukrajince od NATO zemalja najvise guraju Poljaci i ove balticke drzave, i zbog njih Amerika i reaguje, mada si sam vidio kakva je reakcija mnogo price i gromkih izjava a vrlo malo bilo cega konkretnog.
    Last edited by Rastapopoulos; 19-05-14 at 12:04.
    I'm the boss, and you're NOTHING! You get that?

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    "Zajedno smo ljepši, zajedno smo....."

    Русија и Кина почињу заједничку војну вежбу

    http://vostok.rs/index.php?option=bt...ku-vojnu-vezbu
    Bolji od sebe.

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    Evo kako buduci gradonacelnik Kijeva zavodi red

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVizsBDqTGE#t=87
    I'm the boss, and you're NOTHING! You get that?

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    Prvo su ga morali ugasit, da bi se mogao upalit...

    Bolji od sebe.

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    http://www.nspm.rs/hronika/rusija-i-...di-dolara.html
    A sto se Zapada tice, da sam na mjesto Rusa, ne bi ih vise zadrzavao.
    Jos za nekih pola godine ili nesto vise od toga da se pozdrave sa petro dolarom, i svijet polako da odahne od ovih USA.
    Kad bi danas protiv ovog Mila, stao Milo iz 90-ih, ta dva bi Mila vodila rat do satiranja.

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    Stativa, sporazum ipak nije potpisan jer Rusi nisu pristali da spuste cijenu gasa(što i nije nužno loše po njih jer kako ga bude bilo manje to će mu cijena rasti).
    She is only here to annoy herself!

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    Ja sam cita nedje da su sremni da im ga spuste na 270$, koja im je mjerna jedinica, valjda 1000 m3. Sve u svemu tu se ceka da se vidi sta ce bit izmedju EU i Rusije.
    Forever young, i want to be forever young

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    Kinezi su stari trgovci nisu ni oni baš tako blesavi.
    She is only here to annoy herself!

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    Добар уговор за Русију, значајно проширивање.Ипак Кинеско тржиште није ни изблиза довољно да замијени тржиште Европе, ал опет довољно велико да Русија преживи неке краткорочне компликације у снадбијевању Европе.
    Црногорце је одржало црногорско срце.

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    UGOVOR MAŠALA!

    Kung fu i Vodka protiv Mekdonaldsa....
    Jedni imaju enerdžiju, drugi američki san!
    Uskoro će i Miki Maus da napusti Jameriku..
    Bolji od sebe.

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    Kina je trziste u stalnom ekonomskom rastu, istina zadnje 2 god. usporenom, ali ipak rastu i za Evropu taj trend je nemoguce da isprati. Jos kineska vlada pocinje megalomanski projekt urbanizacije stanovnistva, tj. masovno preseljavanje stanovnistva sa sela u grad. Tako da je to trziste i vise nego dovoljno za Rusiju, plus sto je jasno da EU ne moze da izdrzi bez ruskog gasa, samo sto ovaj put je lopta na strani Rusije.
    Forever young, i want to be forever young

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