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Thread: Barski slučaj

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    Default Vijesti, 11. 10. 2010.

    ISTORIČAR GURAKUĆI NA ČELU KOMISIJE ALBANSKOG PARLAMENTA

    Istraga zločina u Baru



    Tirana - Istoričar Romeo Gurakući predvodiće Komisiju albanskog parlamenta koja bi trebalo da ispita zločin nad Albancima sa Kosova koji se krajem Drugog svjetskog rata dogodio kod Bara. Osim njega u tom parlamentarnom tijelu, koje je počelo sa radom prošle nedjelje, predsjedavaće bivši poslanik vladajuće Demokratske partije Uran Butka.
    Kako je javila albanska televizija “Top chanel”, parlamentarna komisija odobrila je program koji obuhvata pregled arhivske građe, ali i svih ostalih dokumenata koji bi mogli pomoći prilikom ispitivanja okolnosti pod kojima se dogodio zločin u Baru. Kako je rečeno u komisiji očekuju pomoć svih relevantnih institucija u Albaniji, Kosovu i Crnoj Gori kako bi se rasvjetlile istorijske činjenice o zločinu u Baru.

    Opozicija u albanskom parlamentu, koja ne učestvuje u radu komisije, obrazložila je da se radi o pitanju kojim treba da se bave istoričari, a ne političari. Opozicione partije su se usprotivile ideji o osnivanju Komisije, ističući da vladajuća Demokratsak partija na taj način pokušava da stekne političke poene među Albancima u zemlji ali i regionu.
    Inicijativu za rasvjetljavanje zločina pokrenula je vladajuća Demokratska partija čiji je lider, premijer Salji Beriša, ranije optužio posljednjeg predsjednika komunističke Albanije Ramiza Aliju da je učestvovao u masakru. Bivši komunistički lider Alija je odgovorio da “premijer Beriša ne zna šta priča”, jer je u to vrijeme bio u Bosni, “a Bar je u Crnoj Gori”.
    U Tirani se tvrdi da su jugoslovenski partizani u proljeće 1945. godine kod Bara “likvidirali hiljade Albanaca sa Kosova”. U tom zločinu, poznatom u Albaniji kao “Tivar masakr”, prema albanskim izvorima, likvidirano je 1.500 do 2.000 Albanaca sa Kosova.

    Sa.K.

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    Читање овог поста https://forum.cdm.me/showthread.php?...27#post5784627 ме је подсјетило на судбину друге колоне косовских регрута.

    С обзиром да сам из овог извора http://www.hri.org/news/balkans/ata/...19.ata.html#03 прочитао да је масовна гробница побијених албанских регрута наводно пронађена још 1996. године од стране Зекерија Цане и то у Туђемилима, да ли ико има сазнања да ли је гробница заиста тамо, и да ли је можда обиљежена?
    Такође да ли је ко у сазнању да ли је и од кога покренута иницијатива за обиљежавањем тог масакра ?

    П.С.
    За невјеровати је да је бошњачки магазин (из чијег текста су направљени први постови ове теме) овај фељтон назвао барски случај.
    Ја чекам посао али волим ову земљу!



    А што пијем кад ми шкоди
    ко ће кући да ме води?

  3. #28
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    Zainteresova me ovo Barski slucaj pa pročitah početne postove...

    U jednoj od ispovijesti ovih kosovara jedan kaže da je sa terase hotela Rumija gledao pokolj, i da su u jame pored trpali pobijene.

    Hotel Rumija je današnja upravna zgrada Luke Bar.


    Kad je Zetagradnja ogradila prvu zgradu u onom parku izmedju današnjeg Hotela Sidro i tzv Cvene Banke, dje je danas Vodovod i dio Muoa za izdavanje dokumenata u Baru cio grad je brujao o tome da se iskopavaju kosti, da je cio onaj teren prepun grobnica itd.

    Tada su barani izbegavali da kupuju stanove u toj zgradi, zvanično iz tog razloga, realno i jer je bila jedna od skupljih lokacija.

    Inace radovi su bili zaustavljeni na kratko i onda se jako nastavilo sa betonirnajem kako bi se sto prije prevazišao taj "problem", a u ono vrijeme 90 i pocetak 2000 to i nije bilo teško znajuci stanje u institucijama i danas a ne tada.

    Sjecam se da je obrazloženje bilo kako se zna za neku bitku iz vremena turaka koja se tu vodila i da je to razlog tooikog broja ostataka kostiju.

    Eto ja tipujem da je to mjesto, a za lokaciju u Tuđemilima nisam nikad čuo, mozda i postoji ali ne znam ima ista obilježeno, inace mi je taj dio blizak, i prešpartao sam ga kao mlađi mnogo puta a nikada nisam naišao cak ni na informaciju.

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    Сигурно је лакше било покопати побијене ту, него их преносити у туђемиле, али нажалост ово су све спекулације.
    Дакле сјећање барана није толико кратко, али питање је да ли је ико жељан баш о томе јавно да говори.
    Питам се зашто локална/државна власт нису ово никада споменули, да ли постоји страх од захтјева за одштетом, или само страх од ружења слике народно ослободилачке борбе?
    Ја чекам посао али волим ову земљу!



    А што пијем кад ми шкоди
    ко ће кући да ме води?

  6. #30
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    Tačno, moje špekulacije.
    Fascinantna mi je činjenica da se o tome u Baru ne govori, da se za to i ne zna.
    Evo u mojoj "kuci" ne znaju za to, stariji im nisu pričali, a poslednjih 10 generacija smo u Bar i oko Bara.

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  8. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    Tačno, moje špekulacije.
    Fascinantna mi je činjenica da se o tome u Baru ne govori, da se za to i ne zna.
    Evo u mojoj "kuci" ne znaju za to, stariji im nisu pričali, a poslednjih 10 generacija smo u Bar i oko Bara.
    Ко воли да прича о својој срамоти?

    На сајту Oral History Kosovo сам нашао једно кратко свједочење преживјелог, а онда и интерју са његовим сином. На енглеском су, нема превода на нашки нажалост.

    https://oralhistorykosovo.org/shaban-pajaziti/

    Shaban Pajaziti: It was downhill to the sand road. When we went down to the planes, we sat, they made us sit in the street just the way we were. And the battalion after us, we could also see them, they were 50 meters from us. One of them stood up, a kind of water tap, there was a tap just close there, they stopped to rest just like us, and then all of a sudden a gunshot was fired, we heard the loud bang of the gunshot, in the battalion behind us. Back then, we knew nothing, there were military forces in that…there, in Bar, in that city. They suddenly came, I still wonder how they managed to be that close, they turned the mašinka[2] on us, they pulled the mašinka towards us, trrak. We were sitting, no one was allowed to move.


    Adem Pajaziti: Did you have any arms at all?


    Shaban Pajaziti: No, not at all, none of us. Then we saw them, there it became, it became noisy, some drugarica[3] came, saying, “On je bio borac ‘41 partizan [He is a 1941 partisan].” We saw an officer come, he was wearing English clothes.

    ............

    Adem Pajaziti: Was that war long, all that massacre?


    Shaban Pajaziti: The massacre lasted for around half an hour, or less, it didn’t last long, only gunshots. It didn’t last long.

    .......

    https://oralhistorykosovo.org/adem-pajaziti/

    Then he said, “They ordered us to get inside that building, that building was a Monopoly of Tobacco.” This means that it was a tobacco warehouse, a warehouse for collecting and manufacturing tobacco. “We started to get inside,” he says, “by the door there were two soldiers standing with guns and another one with a metallic pole with which he tried to catch each one of us who was getting inside and send us down to the basement.” He says, “There were some stairs that led to the basement. The ones who were fast could escape, and while they were escaping, the one with the metallic pole would try to hit them in the head or wherever he could.” He said, “Usually, in the entrance, they would ask which one is… they took a hostage, one of us, and said, ‘Tell me, who took the pistol from my hand?’ The officer, ‘Identify him as he comes inside.’” He said that he didn’t know who took the pistol from his hands, who took it for one moment, [who] took the pistol and then threw it to the ground. He did it in order for a tragedy not to happen, in order for him to calm down. But however, they aimed to make a bigger tragedy. And he said that he [the hostage] didn’t manage to identify who was the one who had taken the pistol from his hands, and in the end, in order to save himself from getting shot, he pointed at some random man, to some man that no one would react for, because he said that when he pointed at someone, all the others would react. “Don’t, why…He is not the one!” And as for him, no one could say anything, “I am not the one!” he said as he was taken and got shot. .....


    ..... “We got inside,” he says, “in one part of it, some of us inside the building, it got full.” The building had two stories and was empty. Then he said that they started to shoot from every side, with various kind of guns, on the groups that were coming, each one of those who were heading to that building which he called the Monopoly of Tobacco. He says that it started to get filled up, and there were people who remained outside. He says, “We went and gazed through the windows to see what was happening, then they started to shoot our walls with a barrage of guns, our windows as well, that’s why we fell on the floor as soon as we could manage, while the bullets kept hitting the side of the wall on our back and the shells of the guns fell close to us, up there.” .......

    ..... He said that when they got close to the door, they didn’t dare get inside, as if, and they asked them to go out, at some point they only asked for a representative, “Can two representatives come and talk, because there was a misunderstanding.” He said, “There was no misunderstanding, we were not armed, we had nothing, we were tattered, with the clothes from home, just as we were.” He says that later on they started going out, gradually in groups of two-three people, and just when they realized that nothing was happening to them, all of them went outside. He said, “They got us close to a wall, and asked us to raise our hands. On the other hand, the soldiers were prepared with arms. We thought that they would shoot us there, the ones who were left.” But he says that they checked all their bags and pockets to see if they had anything, “And they ordered us to head to the sea. The sea was not far, we could see it, and they put us in a field. Until we passed,” he said… “the shoes, the Albanian leather shoes, we used to wear the leather shoes back then…and all of us that were wearing the leather shoes,” he said “our feet got filled with blood. Such was the amount of blood streaming in that part.” ......

    ..... In the morning, at around eight o’clock, they came to take us and send us to that building again. When we went there, they had already cleaned it as if nothing has happened; we could not see anything, no blood, nothing, they had cleaned it. They got us inside the building, again in the Monopoly of Tobacco. We spent two nights there. In the meantime we could see, in the garden of that building, we could see English officers, we could recognize the English uniform, and got the information that the English had come to see what happened here. .......

    ...... As for the question that you asked me about comparing the data we have, to be honest, except Prof. Dr. Hakif Bajrami who researched the archives and found the old documents of the Yugoslav Army with the stamp “top secret,” which are documents where it’s explained who was…I mean, which brigade’s duty was to mobilize them, which was the one in charge to escort them to the meeting point and who was the responsible person during the escort, and who was the one to wait for them at the arriving point. Hakif published all of these documents, I read them. It’s interesting because according to those documents, according to the numbers in those documents, there were over five thousand mobilized people. Three groups, there were over five thousand people. .....



    .... Noar Sahiti: How was it for you, personally, to see the locations which you had been constantly told from your father about as a child?


    Adem Pajaziti: It was an extraordinarily tough emotion, but the kind of emotion, that I got very emotional when I saw the creek and remembered where the beginning of the massacre was, then the doors of the Monopoly, I touched them with my own hands, and it seemed, I checked my hands if they got bloody when I touched the stones {stares at his hand as if there were blood prints on it}…and the door, the door wasn’t changed; it was a door made out of thick plank, you could easily notice that it is very old. Except the fact that there were renovations done inside, otherwise, also because they only allowed us to see the corridor, they didn’t allow us to go further, because people started to immediately come around.

    The emotion I felt started to get mixed up because the friend who was with me said, “I guess it’s dangerous for us to be here longer, because someone can attack us,” so we quickly collected our cameras and our stuff and left. It was hard, it was really hard! It seemed like even the steps weren’t the same as when you walk freely, they were heavy. It was a very heavy emotional state to remember all the people who died there, whose blood flew there, for what reason? For one…senseless, I don’t know, why? What reason for? Just because they were Albanians? Just because they didn’t speak the same language as theirs? Or because they didn’t have claims towards their place, towards their place of birth, towards their lands, towards their property? This is senseless! .......


    ...... Noar Sahiti: Would you like to add something at the end, some other detail?


    Adem Pajaziti: Yes, I just hope that now we will realize the initiative we started to build a reference point for the victims of that massacre. I hope we will raise that obelisk, or that memorial in Prizren. I hope that our historians as well as good-willing people will open the archives and find materials to bring light to this case, because the government has kept that case hidden for 50 years. And as for the moral aspect of this, it’s people’s obligation to bring light to this issue, and even though the people who committed this massacre will not be able to be punished, the bad act will be punished, the genocide committed on those people will be punished. ......


    Необично је што Адем Пајазит помиње 4. црногорску бригаду као починиоца злочина за разлику од миловића који спомиње 10. бригаду.

    Шта се данас налази у згради Дуванског Монопола?
    Last edited by Mstislav; 21-07-22 at 12:30.
    Ја чекам посао али волим ову земљу!



    А што пијем кад ми шкоди
    ко ће кући да ме води?

  9. #32
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    Ipak su to ljudi koji su ginuli za ideologiju koja da je prolsa mozda bi i bila bolja!

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    U toj zgradi je dugo bio Second hand shop, u zadnjih par godina mislim da je skladište neke firme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    U toj zgradi je dugo bio Second hand shop, u zadnjih par godina mislim da je skladište neke firme.
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