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Thread: Naučnici koji su vjerovali i njihove misli

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    Default Naučnici koji su vjerovali i njihove misli

    Ajmo da napravimo jednu analitičku temu o ovome. Prominentni znanstvenici koji su vjerovali u Boga i šta su oni govorili o tome.

    Ono što će se pokazati, jeste da su ama baš svi koji su ista iole konkretno I divljenja dostojno za čovječanstvo uradili su zapravo bili fundamentalni vjernici.

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    Blaise Pascal





    Paskalov doprinos nauci je neizmjeran kako sa tacke vremena u kojem je zivio tako i danas.

    Poznata "opklada" ovog cuvenog matematicara i fizicara (tj filozofa)
    Pascal’s Wager
    (1) It is possible that the God exists and it is possible that the God does not exist.
    (2) If one believes in the God then if he exists then one receives an infinitely great reward and if he does not exist then one loses little or nothing.
    (3) If one does not believe in the God then if he exists then one receives an infinitely great punishment and if he does not exist then one gains little or nothing.
    (4) It is better to either receive an infinitely great reward or lose little or nothing than it is to either receive an infinitely great punishment or gain little or nothing.
    Therefore:
    (5) It is better to believe in the God than it is not to believe in the God.
    (6) If one course of action is better than another then it is rational to follow that course of action and irrational to follow the other.
    Therefore:
    (7) It is rational to believe in the God and irrational not to believe in the God.

    Sta je covjek u prirodi?
    For after all what is man in nature? A nothing in relation to infinity, all in relation to nothing, a central point between nothing and all and infinitely far from understanding either. The ends of things and their beginnings are impregnably concealed from him in an impenetrable secret. He is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness out of which he was drawn and the infinite in which he is engulfed.

    Blaise Pascal, Pensées No. 72
    Last edited by Ego_and_his_own; 21-05-16 at 21:08.

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    Carl Friedrich Gauss



    Cuveni matematicar(tad nazivani prirodni filozofi). Takodje neizmeran doprinos nauci, ali kako sam rece ne zahvaljuci svom trudu vec milosti od Boga

    “I succeeded, not on account of my painful efforts, but by the grace of God. Like a sudden flash of lightening the riddle happened to be solved. I, myself, cannot say what was the conducting thread which connected what I previously knew with what made my success possible.”
    Last edited by Ego_and_his_own; 21-05-16 at 20:54.

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    Isaac Newton




    Matematicar, fizicar i teologicar (to jeste filozof) napisao je vise o religiji nego o nauci u svome zivotu. Po islamskim standardima bio bi cist musliman jer je odbio da prihvati Isusa kao Boga i trojstvo.

    Njegov doprinos takodje neizmjeran.


    He wrote Optics, a study of light. In this scientific treatise, he paused to ask:
    “Whence is it that Nature doth nothing in vain? And whence arises all that order and beauty which we see in the world? . . . Was the eye contrived without skill in optics? And the ear without knowledge of sounds?” [5] Then, in case the reader is not getting his point, he states plainly: “Does it not appear from phenomena that there is a Being incorporeal, living, intelligent, omnipresent, who in infinite space . . . sees the things themselves intimately, and thoroughly perceives them, and comprehends them wholly.” [6]

    In his famous Principia, Newton wrote: “This Being governs all things, not as the soul of the world, but as Lord over all. . . . The Supreme God is a Being eternal, infinite, absolutely perfect . . . and from his true dominion it follows that the true God is a living, intelligent, and powerful Being. . . . He is not eternity and infinity, but eternal and infinite; he is not duration or space, but he endures and is present.” [URL="https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/converging-paths-truth/brief-survey-sir-isaac-newtons-views-religion#_edn7"][7]

    Newton also wrote, “When I wrote my treatise about our system I had an eye upon such principles as might work with considering men for the belief of a Deity; and nothing can rejoice me more than to find it useful for that purpose.” [8] In other words, Newton hoped his scientific writings would lead people to think about and believe in God.
    “In human affairs the father of a family or house is frequently taken for the common father of a kindred: here the whole creation is considered as one kindred or family so named from God, the common father of all.” [9] Thus, for Newton, there was a natural meshing of science and belief in God.

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    dobra tema.

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    Za Pascala stavka 2 nije tačna. Ako vjeruješ nije da ne gubiš ništa. Gubiš slobodu da se ponašaš kako sam želiš. Moraš de ponašati po pravilima Boga, jer ako se ne ponašaš onda opet slijedi kazna... Iz toga su stavke 4, 5, 6 i 7 netačne jer polaze od netačne osnove.

    Poslato sa sjajne pisaće mašine Note 5 x2
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    Kako nije tačna kad vjeruješ po svojoj želji i slobodnoj volji.

    Vjera je stvar sopstvene volje i izbora kao i nevjera stoga tvoj argument nema nikakvu osnovu.
    Last edited by Ego_and_his_own; 21-05-16 at 22:03.

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    Paskalova opklada uzima u obzir samo jednu verziju boga. A posto nema nikakvog osnova da bas ta verzija treba da se uzme u obzir citava ideja pada u vodu. O tome smo govorili.

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    Michael Faraday



    Covjek sa veoma malo formalnog obrazovanja koji je otkrio mnoge stvari izmedju ostalog postavio osnove naseg razumijevanja elektromagnetizma i elektrohemije.

    Nesumnjivo jedan od najuticajnih ljudi koji su neizmjerno doprinijeli nasem razumijevanju prirode. Interesantno je takodje to da je pripadao grupi ljudi koji nisu prihvatali crkvu kao ikakav autoritet.
    Yet even in earthly matters I believe that "the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead," and I have never seen anything incompatible between those things of man which can be known by the spirit of man which is within him, and those higher things concerning his future, which he cannot know by that spirit.

    "... I cannot doubt that a glorious discovery in natural knowledge, and the wisdom and power of God in the creation, is awaiting our age, and that we may not only hope to see it, but even be honoured to help in obtaining the victory over present ignorance and future knowledge."
    Last edited by Ego_and_his_own; 21-05-16 at 22:15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ego_and_his_own View Post
    Kako nije tačna kad vjeruješ po svojoj želji i slobodnoj volji.

    Vjera je stvar sopstvene volje i izbora kao i nevjera stoga tvoj argument nema nikakvu osnovu.
    Odakle Pascal ili recimo ti znate da ukoliko nema Boga a ti vjeruješ u njega ne čeka tebe neka strašna kazna za vjerovanje u pogrešno tokom čitavog života?
    Razmisli malo šire
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    U matematici nema takvih slobodnih "kalkulacija"
    .
    Definicije su postavljene, i verovanje nemože nikako bit nevjerovanje (tj pogrešno vjerovanje). Stoga pogrešno vjerovanje je već uključeno u definiciju nevjerovanja.

    To je sasvim jasno.
    Last edited by Ego_and_his_own; 21-05-16 at 23:16.

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    Fundamentalni akrobata dostojan pomena - Spinoza
    Zelim vam samo jedno, a to su dvije stvari: "rad, red i disciplinu".

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    Johannes Kepler




    Matematicar, astronom i astrolog cija su istrazivanja bila impresivna, a i prekursor mnogih kasnijih, otkrica o Kosmosu.


    I commence a sacred discourse, a most true hymn to God the Founder, and I judge it to be piety, not to sacrifice many hecatombs of bulls to Him and to burn incense of innumerable perfumes and cassia, but first to learn myself, and afterwards to teach others too, how great He is in wisdom, how great in power, and of what sort in goodness.
    Purposely I break off the dream and the very vast speculation, merely crying out with the royal Psalmist: Great is our Lord and great His virtue and of His wisdom there is no number: praise Him, ye heavens, praise Him, ye sun, moon, and planets, use every sense for perceiving, every tongue for declaring your Creator…to Him be praise, honour, and glory, world without end. Amen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ego_and_his_own View Post
    verovanje nemože nikako bit nevjerovanje (tj pogrešno vjerovanje).
    Sta ako postoji bog koji nagradjuje iskljucivo ateiste tj. bas nevjernike? Ili bog koji kaznjava apsolutno sve? Ili nagradjuje apsolutno sve? Sto da ne? Odakle tebi i Paskalu osnov da tvrdite da samo jedno vjerovanje moze da proizvede pozitivan efekat?

    A svi do jednog mislite da je bas vase ispravno. Ti se toliko plasis da si pogresnu vjeru izabrao pa si izmijesao 500 religija u jednu. Sta ako postoji bog koji najvise mrzi ljude poput tebe?
    Last edited by VanjaTheMan; 21-05-16 at 23:57.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ego_and_his_own View Post
    U matematici nema takvih slobodnih "kalkulacija"
    .
    Definicije su postavljene, i verovanje nemože nikako bit nevjerovanje (tj pogrešno vjerovanje). Stoga pogrešno vjerovanje je već uključeno u definiciju nevjerovanja.

    To je sasvim jasno.
    U matematici ima slobodnih kalkulacija. Kaže se da nešto teži nuli. Nije nula
    Kaže se da nešto teži beskonaznosti. Nije beskonaznost.

    Opklada kaže da ukoliko postoji Bog on će kazniti onog ko ne vjeruje i da onaj koji vjeruje dobija. Po matematičkom modelu teži se da svi koji ne vjeruju budu kažnjeni. Ali ne i svi.


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    René Descartes



    Jedan od nauticajnih matematicara i filozofa. Cuven po recenici "Mislim, dakle postojim."


    Though we may sometimes fall into error in our reasoning, he suggested, we will not do so if we accept only those truths that we clearly and distinctly perceive. For our rational faculties are, he claimed, given to us by God, and God is no deceiver. He thus made knowledge of the existence of God the foundation of all empirical knowledge.

    Interesantno je takodje da je imao vizije koje su mu otkrile novu filozofiju.

    Visions
    According to Adrien Baillet, on the night of 10–11 November 1619 (St. Martin's Day), while stationed in Neuburg an der Donau, Descartes shut himself in a room with an "oven" (probably a Kachelofen or masonry heater) to escape the cold. While within, he had three visions and believed that a divine spirit revealed to him a new philosophy. Upon exiting he had formulated analytical geometry and the idea of applying the mathematical method to philosophy. He concluded from these visions that the pursuit of science would prove to be, for him, the pursuit of true wisdom and a central part of his life's work.[23][24] Descartes also saw very clearly that all truths were linked with one another, so that finding a fundamental truth and proceeding with logic would open the way to all science. This basic truth, Descartes found quite soon: his famous "I think therefore I am".[20]
    Last edited by Ego_and_his_own; 22-05-16 at 00:05.

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    Ego tu treba razluciti nekoliko pojmova ,religioznost, vjerovanje ,vjernik.Njihov nivo pojmanja boga ukoliko uopste mozemo da znamo koliki je posto je nas um daleko ispod njihovog ne u smislu da su oni pametniji a mi gluplji, mnogo drugaciji ,mozda glupo reci visi nivo ali svakako drugacija dimenzija pojmanja Boga od one koju mi obicni smrtnici pojmamo ali svakako dobra tema hajmo malo da se raspravlljamo da ubijamo dosadui da se nadmudrujemo , ja sam inace nevjernik ali vjerujem .ahahahha. za ovo Ja sam se salio jer ono ne postoji.
    Last edited by gerilac; 22-05-16 at 00:34.

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    Pa ako si glup, kao što kažeš, jel bi bilo pametno da vjeruješ u što pišeš?

    Pridružio bih ti se sigurno kad bih tako bez mnogo razmišljanja donosio zaključak.

    Da si pročitao što je Dekart rekao i primijenio mnoge bi od tih logičkih i faktičkih grešaka u svom rezonovanju izbjegao.

    Ali može se naslutiti iz tvog pisanja da si ti možda zadovoljan sa takvim stanjem. Ipak čovjek kad bi stio mogao bi viđet da mnogi nisu i da je to velikim dijelom ljudska priroda da iz neznanja teže ka znanju. I niko ne bi, bez možda neko bez uma ili možda ljenivac da opravda sebe, da tvrdi da je to neizvodljivo i nedosežno.

    Tako i ovi ljudi da to niko nije moga shvatiti što su zborili, nebi niko ni znao za njih. Stoga je tvoja tvrdnja i svođenje svega na tvoj nivo vrlo problematičan i jasno ne utemeljen u realnosti.
    Last edited by Ego_and_his_own; 22-05-16 at 01:14.

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    Oprosti mi Ego svevisnj Ego . Ponavljam post koji sam vec za tebe napisao mozda ga nisi procitao moze se upotrebiti za ovo.Ego kazes da je bog sveprisutan? zar to nije pojam ljudske prisutnosti i njegove maste o sveprisustvovanju? Bog o kome mnogi pojedinci govore a vidim i ti vise mi lici na nekoga covjeka kojeg je nasa fikcija zamislila nego na objektivnu transcedenciju koja ukoliko postoji treba da transcenidra,prelazi nase misljenje o njemu,o bogu.Ne zelim da mislim da je tako ali ipak moram reci da se stice utisak da oni koji pricaju o vjeri vise lice na atheiste nego li sami atheisti, a da su atheisti ti koji teze ka istini i saznanju.Problem koji ne vidi nas zatvoreni um trebao bi da nam bude i resenje.Kao sto svakom covjeku odgovaraju razlicite vjezbe za izgradnju misica tako svakome covjeku odgovara raylicit nacin misljenja za izgradnju uma.To znaci da ono sto ti pricas nije nuzno neistina jer nije ni moguce da postoji neistina, ali da to tvoje zatvoreno ,nepormjenjivo misljenje koje kroz vjeru propagiras jednostavno nije primjenjivo na svaciji um, jer kako rekoh svaciji um ima razlicite nacine za ostvarivanje i razvijanje svoga maloga svijeta pa je zato svaki pokusaj nametanja svoje istine nekome drugom covjeku neuspjeo pokusaj, jer svaka stvar u univerzumu posjeduje svoju sustinu i vrlo je slozena da bi se mogla obuhvatiti nasim ljudskim ogranicenim misljenjem. A evo jedno pitanje za tebe.Ako je nesto stvorilo nesto drugo iz njega samoga,da li to sto je stovreno pripada tome sto stvara? a ako pripada kako je moguce da to sto stvara bude drugacije od toga sto je stvoreno kad je to sto je stovreno stvoreno iz toga sto stvara? Ili jednostavnije receno kako je moguce da bog bude drugaciji od samoga sebe jer ono sto je stvorio a to smo mi jeste upravo on sam?Posto sam ja Bog a kao takav imam mogucnost da prosudim da li si pravilno odgovorio na moje pitanje ako pravilno odgovoris kao nagradu ni manje ni vise dobti ces note 4 koji prodajem na forumu.

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    Kako bi ja volio da mogu izbiflat sad odje FFT iz bilo kojeg signala. Čak sam dosta vremena proveo slušajući predavanja i čitajući članke o tome i pokušavao da shvatim ali ne ide.

    Shvatio sam da mi nedostaje određeno predznanje koje bi mi omogućilo to. Zato sam kupio masu knjiga iz matematike od istorije do djela Euklida i Arhimeda da bih krenuo sa početka i vidio šta sam propuštio. A ne sumnjam da ću morati još koju nabaviti.
    Teška je muka ka neznalica prilaziti znanju, ovi te znaju te gledaju ka ćuka sa svim tvojim pogrešnim idejama i pitanjima koje imaš i niko nema strpljenja da ispravlja tvoje krive drine. Bez ako jedino ti sam ne budeš uporan i da ne odustaješ. A muka me fata od samog gledanja debljine ovih knjiga. Ali ako doista želiš da dosegneš to znanje nema mjesta intimidaciji.

    Neznam kako tebi ide sa tim tvojim pristupom ma meni nebi valja ništa.

    Ne treba meni Note 4 ništa imam tih matraka dosta a i staro je to.
    Last edited by Ego_and_his_own; 22-05-16 at 03:09.

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    Religija nije zavisna od inteligencije. Čakkkk štoviše intelekt hrani egoizam, a što direktno pravi zid ispred religije. Odnosno daje prednost "apsolutnim glupostima!" u odnosu na "apsolutno sveznanje(Bog)" koje je povezano sa svima nama nekim još neotkrivenim receptorima S toga, knjige vam uopšte nisu potrebne jer je sve vrlo logično i lako
    E! Sad što vi vjerujete više drugima nego sebi...........za to je kriv stari-loši kult ličnosti.

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    Ja otkad sam počeo sa matematičarima da se družim počeo sam da uviđam fundamentalne probleme. Šta je to inteligencija, koja je definicija nje. Šta je egoizam, a tu kad uletiš u te izme i šizme ka da si u drače uletio generalizacije i neodređenosti.

    I na kraju što je Bog slao toliko knjiga, nepotrebnih kako si predložio, ako je doista to tako za sve ljude. I koja je poenta onda riječi?

    1 U početku beše Riječ, i Riječ bješe u Boga, i Bog bješe Riječ.

    2 Ona bješe u početku u Boga.

    3 Sve je kroz Nju postalo, i bez Nje ništa nije postalo što je postalo.

    4 U Njoj beše život, i život beše videlo ljudima.

    5 I Videlo se svetli u tami, i tama Ga ne obuze.

    ovo su veoma krupne tvrdnje.
    Last edited by Ego_and_his_own; 22-05-16 at 05:36.

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    Leonhard Euler



    Matematicar, fizicar, logicar i inzinjer koji je otkrio mnoge stvari u matematici da ga mnogi smatraju najznacajnijom licnoscu u istoriji matematike.

    Bio je posvecen vjernik i tokom svog zivota se upustao u mnoge polemike sa svojim savremenicima o Religiji.

    Poznata propozicija Eulera kao dokaz postojanja Boga - Euler's identity nazvana "the most remarkable formula in mathematics."

    where

    e is Euler's number, the base of the natural logarithm,
    i is the imaginary unit, one of the two complex numbers whose square is negative one (the other is -i\,\!), and
    pi is pi, the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter.

    Euler's identity is also sometimes called "Euler's equation".


    Euler's identity is remarkable for its mathematical beauty. Three basic arithmetic functions are present exactly once: addition, multiplication, and exponentiation. As well, the identity links five fundamental mathematical constants:

    The number 0.
    The number 1.
    The number π, which is ubiquitous in trigonometry, Euclidean geometry, and mathematical analysis.
    The number e, the base of natural logarithms, which occurs widely in mathematical analysis.
    The number i, imaginary unit of the complex numbers, which contain the roots of all nonconstant polynomials and lead to deeper insight into many operators, such as integration.
    Furthermore, in mathematical analysis, equations are commonly written with zero on one side.

    A reader poll conducted by Physics World in 2004 named Euler's identity the "greatest equation ever", together with Maxwell's equations.

    Constance Reid even claimed that Euler's identity was "the most famous formula in all mathematics".

    Gauss is reported to have commented that if this formula was not immediately apparent to a student on being told it, the student would never be a first-class mathematician.[1]

    After proving the identity in a lecture, Benjamin Peirce, a noted nineteenth century mathematician and Harvard professor, said, "It is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth." [2]

    Na kraju njegovo vidjenje Svetih Knjiga:

    “The Holy Scripture not only provides those who are seriously concerned with the improvement of their hearts with the most powerful means to that end, but that it also leads them in time to a greater knowledge of God”.
    Last edited by Ego_and_his_own; 22-05-16 at 05:15.

  24. #24
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    Ego priznajem da sam neznalica,misljenjem to priznati znaci ostati otvoren prema svijetu i shvatanju stvari,duboko u sebi misliti da si pametan, a to na izlged ne pokazivati ,znaci ostati zatvorena misljenja a time i neprihvatanja drugih teorija osim svoje sto pomalo lici i na sektu.Jednom mi je djed rekao ne spustaj se na nivo ogranicenog moze da te pobjedi na svome nivou ja sam mu na to rekao djedo ja sam prosao sve te nivoe pa katkad po potrebi koristim koji mi zatreba xixixiix zahuhtava se situacija
    Last edited by gerilac; 22-05-16 at 15:01.

  25. #25
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    Svako je neznalica oko nečega i ponešto zna. To je Bog moguće tako napravio da bi učili jedni od drugija. No ima i takvija koji ništa neće da nauče nit da razmišljaju.

    Voltare insuinira, takvima svaki jaram pristoji.

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